Wednesday, December 01, 2004

Gays Get AIDS On Purpose

The title of this post might get me some flaming, but I don't care. A federal study released today shows AIDS cases rising among gay and bisexual men. It also says that these men account for the majority of the approximately 900,000 Americans with reported cases of AIDS. But the main point I want to make here is the rise in cases among this group. I thought the gay community wanted us to believe they are just like me...caring, loving people with family values and in monogamous relationships...just with the same sex. Well Bullshit! Its clear that the gay sex orgies, bath houses and just plain promiscuous lifestyle of the gay community that they claim is an invalid stereotype is alive and well. These people know the risks, but clearly they choose to ignore it...for all I know there's a unspoken badge of honor in the gay community when your infected. The total disregard for many things good, decent and normal is appalling.

It's also interesting that the study found that since 1990 blacks who only represent 13% of the population for this period make up 51.3% of all HIV and AIDS cases diagnosed in the same period. I'm not sure what that tells us....would be curious to see what people suggest is the reason for this BIG TIME anomaly!

UDPATE 1: My buddy Kurt just shot me a link to a Rolling Stone article that validates my hunch on the badge of honor. Get ready to learn about Bug Chasers....sick bastards!

UPDATE 2: Kurt comes thru again with a story that may be one of the reasons for the numbers in the black community.

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

Dude, you have got to be kidding. You're kidding, right? How could you possibly interpret that data to mean that people are choosing a long and painful death on purpose?

Tiny said...

Dude...I don't mean they literally choose to get AIDS....but if my wife has a nasty cold and I start making out with her do I not know I'm pretty much giving myself the best odds to join her affliction? AIDS could be nearly destroyed by condoms or abstinence by those who know they are infected.

Anonymous said...

Actually I'm a white fairly conservative gay man living in San Francisco. I am HIV negative and this my unspoken badge of honor. By the way, how many straight men would love to have sex on a regular basis with several different woman, don't be so ignorant, it happens in the heterosexual world more than you think. For your case that black men have 51.3% of the HIV cases in the gay community, well what is the percentage in the complete spectrum. Could this mean they are ignorant, uneducated, apathetic, heck maybe blacks want to get the virus. Do the black children born with HIV virus on a daily basis wear the badge of honor? I just feel you should look at the complete picture!

Anonymous said...

Dude, comparing HIV infection to getting a cold is a bit of a stretch. But it is true that there are many people that follow a lifestyle that is far to careless for the stakes of their situation. But did you consider that there are other factors at work here besides personal will? Factors such as heroin use being on the rise due to it being cheaper than ever before? It's an interesting article that you cite, but it merely talks about the rise in the stats without discussing the factors that may be responsible for this.

Tiny said...

White straight Dude...I'm looking at the whole picture...sure single men and women can and are promiscuous as well...but since the numbers say new cases are dominated by the gay and bisexual community either the straight folks are avoiding having sex with those in that community, are practising safe sex, both of these, or maybe its something else. Whatever it is, the single straight community dwarfs the gay/bisexual one and they aren't getting AIDS like the same sex sex crowd is. I have no idea what the black statistics mean or prove.

Tiny said...

Dude, you have to be kidding....ok so you're suggesting that some of the gay and bisexual men who get AIDS got it not from sex but from shared needle drug use? Ok, that's still f'd up and just more evidence of a community who plays with fire and gets burned...DUH

Anonymous said...

Dude, so you think addiction is a voluntary thing? Funny that. Most gay people that I know are very careful about using condoms for sex and they are well educated about the potential for HIV infection. There does seem to be some kind of disconnect in the gay community that sees the HIV infection rate rising...

Tiny said...

Dude who thinks people aren't responsible for their actions....ah, YES I think except for a baby born to some kind of addict I think you make the choice they day you take something up your ass or have a needle pushed in your arm (or any other spot) except when done by a medical practisioner for medical reasons. You could learn a lot from me! :)

Anonymous said...

Dude, so you mean to tell me that everyone is solely responsible for everything that affects them regardless of outside forces or genetic predispositions? The culture of victim hood is truly way over blown in this society, but don’t you think there are some things an individual cannot control? I am learning much from you, Jedi Master.

MOV said...

What the hell Tiny... You have no problem coming up with some ludicrous theories regarding the rising AIDS/HIV rate among the homosexual community, but you stay away from making a similar assessment about the rising rate in the black community? Come on Tiny, I'm sure you have an opinion on that as well. Could it be that you aren't afraid to make sweeping judgements on the gay community, but realize that you might be labelled a racist if you do the same for the black community????

Tiny said...

Yes Young Luke.....but only a minute number of cases are out of the control of the person afflicted...the vast majority make a free will choice to roll a very dangerous dice. By the way, just because you have a genetic predisposition to an addicton of some kind (like say alcoholism) doesn't mean one day your sitting there as a heroin virgin and just can't help but stick a needle in your arm....having an addictive personality or predisposition only gets you part way there..you have to make a choice, but having made the wrong choice your chances at getting stuck are largely improved.

diogenean said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

(Caveat: I'm a different anonymous poster than the one listed above.)
There's a curious and unfortunate pattern to nearly all of your discussions in your entire Blog. You lack the ability or interest to discern the differences between large and varied groups of people. You fall into the classic view of minorities as monoliths. And as such, your ideas are stale and poorly articulated.
As it pertains to the gay community, this problem is far more complex than you are even considering. The roots stem from the fact that AIDS awareness was spurred up in the early 1980s when AIDS was literally a death sentence to millions of Americans. Consequently, older gay and heterosexual Americans (think late 30s and older) have a reasonable and guarded attitude towards the disease.
As the "cocktail" became more popular and effective, the community as a whole focussed on prevention and the rates of infection decreased across the gay community. Unfortunately, as with all diseases, AIDS became a problem that young gays felt you could "live through". Older gays largely are aghast, but the younger and more impetuous ones are prone to being risky. But Tiny, this is not a factor of sexuality. Young people are larger risk takers across all spectrum of societies.
Interestingly, AIDS is not the only disease to express this pattern. Rates of syphillis, herpes, and chlamydia all have increased as people felt the diseases posed lesser threats.
In conclusion, the main points here are:
1) There is a large gulf dividing the gay community that is more predicated on age differences than anything else. So to call this an issue of "gays at large" is frankly asinine.
2) This is a general problem that occurs with all diseases as they are normalized. Since you lived through the AIDS panic of the 1980s your perspective on the disease is probably more hysterical than anyone younger than you.
3) The truth is that to most Americans with health care, AIDS is not the health concern that it was. Should it be irradicated? Yes. But the dynamic is so different from the 1980s that it can't even be compared.
4) If you actually care about any of the stuff you spout off about, I'd say: educate yourself and DO something. There's a lot to be done about the worldwide AIDS problem. Get up and pick up a shovel.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Tiny said...

Hey anonymous bastion of AIDS and homesexual knowledge...FU...you lost any credibility or consideration with your superiority insult (You lack the ability or interest to discern the differences between large and varied groups of people). You know what, I don't care if I lump all gays into one camp...It ticks me off we do now have a global AIDS problem that will cost dearly in terms of lives and dollars and a cost burdened by those who don't have a choice. I believe that lack of values and good judgement by the gay community is the reason is got to this point...I don't care what your, or anyone elses, argument might be to the contrary.

MOV said...

"I don't care what your, or anyone elses, argument might be to the contrary."

See Tiny, that's what separates you and me. I'm open minded enough to admit that there's ALWAYS something someone can say to change my mind. If there is a persuasive enough argument out there, I have no problem changing my position on an issue. You on the other hand, declare that there's absolutely nothing anyone could possibly say to ever change your opinion on this subject.
That's unfortunate.
It also means there's no point in me wasting my breath with any more responses to your postings, because I'm simply talking to a wall.

Tiny said...

MOV, well sorry to see you go if you do...but I think you have the difference between me and you wrong...I have fundemental core values and beliefs that will NOT change. You can call that what you want but that's also something that separated those that voted for Bush rather than Kerry. Kerry has no core...Bush isn't the best choice but he has a core that while I don't totally agree with I can accept. One of the things that makes this country great is that we can have extreme diversity of thoght...but we wouldn't even have this country if it weren't for beliefs in certain ideals and values that many felt so strongly about they would die for....I have beliefs I would die for..those are the kind of beliefs you die with never having changed.

Anonymous said...

What a gentleman.

Anonymous said...

MOV, there is a simple concept for the condition you describe Tiny being inflicted by. It is called ignorance.

Tiny said...

That's what liberal elites like to call it when you have a position or fundamental belief in conflict with theirs. I take a stand and stick by it...your problem is that you don't believe in anything that strongly...or you make yourself feel better about not having that level of commitment to a belief so have to label mine as misguided or ignorance.

Hazim Hal Ukabarara said...

I don't know what the hub bub is about.

Tiny is right.

There is an old saying in my country: "If you #^$@ a sheep, don't be so surprised if you get wool on your #*@$"


AIDs is awful. But I save my sympathy for people who die from diabetes, cancer, lightening strikes, spontaneous human combustion, toothpick accidents, accidental strangulation from two shoelaces tied together (to keeps his shoes together).

I do feel bad when I hear that a mountain climber died when his rope snapped and he spilled his brain matter all over a national park...because no death is cool...but that was a risk of what he was doing.

AIDs is preventable. What is so hard to understand?

More importantly the politicizing of a preventable disease (because it isn't about the disease it is the politics of the lifestyle) has taken resources and attention from addressing non-preventable diseases.

Anonymous said...

This is a lovely little microcosm of the broken state of political discourse in America. By going after my "elitist" stylings, you have obfuscated the key points of my argument, Tiny. It's a regrettable thing that you interpreted my comment as an ad hominem attack. And more regrettable that you continue to employ such attacks in your comments.
Nonetheless, you and your faux-pan-Arab friend are skirting the point of the issue. If you read up on this, you'll see that the "gay community" is not a real entity. It's a group that's deeply divided on the very real and important issues that you are discussing.
Furthermore, you're both losing the fact that we all agree that the problems of the young gays who persist in "barebacking" or "bug-chasing" are being fairly stupid. But that's what being young is about.
You then take this one group and expand it to the problem of AIDS which is very unfair. AIDS worldwide has little to nothing to do with the gay community. Where AIDS has exploded as a health epidemic, the main causes are unchecked and flourishing prostitution, rampant adultery, and the lack of decent methods of STD-prevention. It's a serious problem that affects millions of people that any American - "Red" or "Blue" - would call innocent. A huge number are orphaned children in sub-Saharan Africa as well as women around the world who lack the ability to monitor or control their husbands actions as they cheat or use prostitutes.
People are dying and suffering and the attachment of "morals" is really missing the point. In South Africa or Vietnam, the problem is not gay people. It's education, lack of resources, and lack of medicine.
I don't want to chastise you and I hope you see that I'm trying to fork out the "world" AIDS problem from the domestic one. The domestic one is indeed due to some amount of recklessness. But please don't let that taint your view of those untold millions suffering from a disease they had virtually no control over.
Go to Kenya or Bangladesh and try to assess how much people even know about germ theory. It's a different problem out there.

Hazim Hal Ukabarara said...

Mr. Anon.

You said: Furthermore, you're both losing the fact that we all agree that the problems of the young gays who persist in "barebacking" or "bug-chasing" are being fairly stupid. But that's what being young is about.

If you read the article, you would see that Carlos is 32. Not "young" by my standards. It is too easy of a cop-out for you to just chalk it up to the silliness of youth. You are missing the point. It is not about age - it is about attitude.

And I don't appreciate the personal attack. My mom would never view me as a faux anything. No need to get personal.

Hazim Hal Ukabarara said...

Mr. Anon,

As a follow up, I agree that AIDs is not a gay issue.

However, having traveled to Africa, I have seen the posters that associate unprotected sex with AIDS and ultimately death (in far more graphic terms that would be accepted by the public here).

So whereas more education is always a wonderful thing, the reality is that it is about personal responsibility. People have known for a long time that having unprotected sex may result in pregnancy - but that was different since people could run away from that responsibility. In this case they can't and what makes it worse is that they then infect others.

I repeat what I said earlier, it is about attitude.

Anonymous said...

Dude, that was an interesting article and there were some choice quotes in there. I don't really think that this article supports your position that having the HIV is a prestigious thing in the gay community by and large. How about this quote:

"Like a lot of sexual fetishes and extreme behaviors, bug chasing could not exist without the Internet, or at least it couldn't thrive. Prior to the advent of Web surfing and e-mail, it would have been practically impossible for bug chasing to happen in any great numbers, because it's still not acceptable to walk up to a stranger and say you want the virus. But the Internet's anonymity and broad access make it possible to find someone with like interests, no matter how outlandish."

I get two things from that quote. One is that this is such an extreme thing, in such small numbers, that one would have to go to a national level to find someone to actually infect you. The second item is that this is not an acceptable practice in the general gay population. I really don’t think you can just brand the entire gay community as reckless self destructive people.

Another choice quote from your article seems to have true in this current discussion:

"GLAAD spokeswoman Cathy Renna was more helpful, saying she had heard enough about bug chasing to be concerned, emphasizing that her group's focus would be whether people use bug chasing as an easy way to disparage all gays and lesbians as sex-crazed and reckless. "The vast majority of the gay community would be just as surprised and appalled by this as anyone else," she says."

So are you making this mistake, Tiny? Are you disparaging all gays and lesbians as sex-crazed and reckless? Or are you taking the time to understand that there are divisions with in the gay community itself.

One of my best friends is a gay man who hates queenie faries. He loves football, plays sports, loves beer (not mimosas) and does not walk, talk or dress like anyone on Will and Grace. The guys he dates are the same. Or how about old fags who have been together for years. They don’t go our and party all night. They are more like an old couple.

It takes all kinds. But you don't seem to be interested in making that distinction in your argument.

Tiny said...

Anon Dude,

No I don't assume all gays are sec crazed and reckless....I'll admit it easier to just assume a group is uniform. That said I don't think it matters. I think when you disagree with someone's premise its easy to try and dismiss it in its entirety because you can give examples within the group that don't fit the premise.

Anonymous said...

Dude,

that was quite a run. I look forward to more of your posts.

Anonymous said...

Maybe if you use qualifiers in your heartfelt statements, instead of making a blanket statement, then it will be harder for people to discount them so easily.

HST Overdrive said...

Dude,

looks like there is some dissent in the ranks of the GOP. How did this guy even get in there?

http://www.bluelemur.com/index.php?p=428

Tiny said...

Hey, I already said I was lazy in just lumping a group together...one bad apple doesn't spoil the whole bunch applies in all cases. While this guys lifestyle (if accurately described) is exactly what I find so objectionable I think it's good to have diversity of thought within a party.

Ockhamsrazor said...

I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my homosexuals flaaaaaaaaming!

tiny's hero said...

Anonymous,

In my mind, it boils down to simple statistics.... Per the National Vital Statistics report entitled Deaths: Final Data for 2001 (published by the CDC)

Top 10 causes of deaths in 2001 (out of a total of 2,416,425):

Heart Disease - 700,142
Cancer - 553,768
Stroke - 163,538
Lower Respiratory disease - 123,013
Accidents - 101,537
Diabetes - 71,372
Influenza and pneumonia - 62,034
Alzheimers - 53,852
Nephritis (Kidney disease) - 39,480
Septicemia (blood infection) - 32,238

HIV - 14,175 (rank is approximately 16)

Look at the numbers again. Heart disease accounts for 29% of all deaths. Cancer 22.7%. HIV? .5%! More data for you.... In 2002, the NIH allocated $178,000 in research funding for each AIDS death compared to between $2000-$14,000 for every other disease!!!

This is the problem. Because of an extremely strong lobby, AIDS/HIV research is WAY over-funded. And, if you add in the fact that is a mostly preventable disease, it becomes an injustice!

Tiny said...

Excellent point by my admirer!

Anonymous said...

Err... non-partisan comment here: wouldn't the moniker connote that "Tiny's Hero" is the "Hero" of Tiny? Therefore, isn't Tiny the admirer of "Tiny's Hero"? Or is "Tiny's Hero" a woefully misspelled version of "Tiny is my hero"?

Tiny said...

Yes...ok, he claims he's my hero...but I think he knows the truth!