Thursday, March 23, 2006

Sheen taps experts around his circles!

Nothing like bolstering the credibility of a group, like the 9/11 conspiracy theorists, by having Charlie Sheen join your ranks! We already know the guy is wack! First, remember what Heidi Fleiss looks like? Her image would make a great beware of STD's poster for teens! Then he let mega hottie Dennis Richards (shown here) get away. Of course when you look at Sheen's life of higher education, clean living, engineering experience and the Martin Sheen lineage...well then you must really ponder the questions the bowling shirt man poses! And lest you think Sheen was speaking off the cuff he stated "It feels like from the people I talk to, and the research I've done and around my circles, it feels like the worm is turning." Now, I don't know about you, but I have heard his "circles" are full of physicists, experts in architecture, structural engineering, demolition pyrotechnics, aeronautics, materials science and of course psychology. And I'm not exactly sure what the "worm is turning" thing means, but I'm sure it's not a reference to that little bugger (gusano rojo) in a bottle of mezcal!

Update (3/24): In case you have questions, like Mr. Sheen, or you're swayed by various experts the many conspiracy theory websites and books present, let me offer you some material or things to consider. First, East Carolina University has a great website that gives links to thoughtful reports and analysis. There is a ton of material....video and still images, not just single experts from here and there but entire teams giving input to various theories throughout these sites. Some time ago I found the ECU site and read a lot of the material on the sites they link. But a Popular Mechanics piece on the skepticism of what really happened is one of the better concise reports addressing this. It's called 9/11: Debunking The Myths and here's the PM Editors notes on the report:

FROM THE MOMENT the first airplane crashed into the World Trade Center on the morning of September 11, 2001, the world has asked one simple and compelling question: How could it happen?

Three and a half years later, not everyone is convinced we know the truth. Go to Google.com, type in the search phrase "World Trade Center conspiracy" and you'll get links to an estimated 628,000 Web sites. More than 3000 books on 9/11 have been published; many of them reject the official consensus that hijackers associated with Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda flew passenger planes into U.S. landmarks.

Healthy skepticism, it seems, has curdled into paranoia. Wild conspiracy tales are peddled daily on the Internet, talk radio and in other media. Blurry photos, quotes taken out of context and sketchy eyewitness accounts have inspired a slew of elaborate theories: The Pentagon was struck by a missile; the World Trade Center was razed by demolition-style bombs; Flight 93 was shot down by a mysterious white jet. As outlandish as these claims may sound, they are increasingly accepted abroad and among extremists here in the United States.

To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.

In the end, we were able to debunk each of these assertions with hard evidence and a healthy dose of common sense. We learned that a few theories are based on something as innocent as a reporting error on that chaotic day. Others are the byproducts of cynical imaginations that aim to inject suspicion and animosity into public debate. Only by confronting such poisonous claims with irrefutable facts can we understand what really happened on a day that is forever seared into world history.--THE EDITORS

Update (3/26): Hey all you conspriacy believers....see even your normal bash the right, bash Bush wielding MSM is in on the coverup! So worried is the government that Charlie Sheen's words will be viewed as credible that they controlled Drudge and the MSM! Man, it's wide spread! We better take up arms and storm D.C.! Oh wait...you don't own any guns do you?

Wait....maybe, just maybe the MSM wouldn't run this because it would be like covering rapper fitty cent's opinion of neoclassical economics! Well, Comedy Central would cover that!

Update (3/27): Conspiracy guys....how do you explain Zacarias Moussaoui? Today he testifies that he and "would-be shoe bomber Richard Reid were supposed to hijack a fifth airplane on Sept. 11, 2001, and fly it into the White House". I guess these two were paid so well, or brainwashed by government scientists, so that they don't spill the beans on the big conspiracy! It's interesting that nobody has drawn a line between any of the 9/11 hijackers and our government, our military, or anyone even close!

22 comments:

Schadenfreude said...

I don't let rock stars or actors do my thinking for me, any more than I would allow politicians or anyone for that matter. However, I listened to the whole interview instead of just the exerpts I saw/heard on TV and CNN.com. Some of his stuff echoes ideas I have thought on my own for quite some time.

I was here in NYC on 9/11 -- I had lived and worked here for 7 years at that point. You could see the towers from my building's south facing windows.

And since that day, I have had similar questions as Sheen does about "the official line" on what happened after the initial shock went away.

Some of the official account just doesn't stand up under scrutiny unless you accept that our military and government are completely and wholly stupid and inept on some points, which I find hard to swallow.

I won't go through it all here. But as for Charlie Sheen in this particular interview, he never claims to know what "really" happened or to be an expert, but he does have questions -- some valid, some outlandish -- that are at least worth investigating.

Tiny said...

Schad...I'm so disappointed....go ahead, tell me what question(s) you think there isn't a satisfactory answer for?

Schadenfreude said...

Sorry to disappoint, T -- but I'm a free thinker and believe something can be learned from the left, the right, the wise man and the fool. That said, some of my questions:

1) Why is there no footage of the plane that hit the Pentagon? That area has to be one of the most videotaped by civilian and government cameras. And all we get are 5 frames? Why? We see the footage of the WTC all the time, why not the Pentagon?

2a) I can see how an unskilled pilot could hit the WTC -- there's tons of room for error. But how does even a capable pilot fly a jetliner just above treetops, highways, roadways and traffic at over 500 mph and not overshoot or undershoot at all?

2b) Where's the plane debris?

3a) If the terrorist had indeed been planning this since the 93 bombing, they would conceivably have thought out every detail, especially in terms of their goals. Osama is quoted as hoping for maximum destruction and was pleasantly surprised by the collapse. So why didn't the terrorists hold off on their attack until 9:30 or 10:00 am when the peak of workers would have been at their desks in the towers? There would be no operational risk, they would just delay taking over the planes for a little longer.

3b) Again why that day, a day when school was starting and many people were going to arrive late after dropping off their children.

4) Why did Bush's advisors and secret service let him stay at a school where everyone knew he was which was close to a major airport when it became clear the US was under attack and an unknown number of other hijacked planes were in the air. That school would be an easy target, but there was no fear or urgency in removing the commander in chief to a safer location.

5) Why was shootdown authority taken away from generals and admirals not too long before 9/11? Hadn't this been under their auspices for decades beforehand?

I have more but I'll stop. Again, I dunno what's ultimately true. I just have questions. And that's my point on Charlie. He doesn't know. He doesn't claim to. He's no authority. I appreciate his interview as being thought provoking, not authoritative.

Oh and as for Denise Richards, I recall some advice my father gave me as a lad. For every stunningly gorgeous woman out there, there's a guy out there who's sick of her crap. Ya never know.

Tiny said...

Schad, man you got it bad...See my update to the post, I will let you do some reading. You imply that if you don't feel there are troubling questions yet unanswered that you're not a free thinker, or that you don't believe you can learn from those with different ideology? Huh? Even without being a free thinker you'll find plenty of material from sources that you can't claim with any certainty are biased or in on any conspiracy.

Schadenfreude said...

Thanks for the links, T -- I will consume them later (actually I just went through the PM stuff, very cool).

In answer to your question, my implication on the "free thinker" stuff was not to imply you're not. It meant that I personally don't blindly accept what I'm told (be that the official story from the mainstream media or the "Israelis did it" conspiracy theories at wack-job.com) -- I am open to other perspectives and dismiss nothing out of hand outright.

It's up to me to decide what I believe after I evaluate it all.

Where I am now is left with questions unanswered (and I will read the East Carolina stuff later to see if that answers any on my list), or not answered in a satisfactory fashion.

That the PM information says there are numerous eyewitnesses that a plane hit the Pentagon is fine. Other eyewitnesses claim it wasn't a plane. Okay. So show me the tape of the impact. Why can't we see that?

I think it's perfectly rational to want to see that footgage before I decide which eyewitnesses I should believe.

Ministry of Truth said...

popular mechanics was debunked some time ago...

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/

Tiny said...

ministry of your truth,

Whatever...4 people with a 9/11 site, who from my read already had their mind made up from the initial mile high view of the events, and they debunk all the non-conspiracy pundits..ya. Many of the sources on the ECU site (and others) didn't, in my view, start with the notion that they knew the truth before researching it. Common sense is also largely missing from your universe.

Tiny said...

And another thing....read the About pages on the 911research site...they clearly have a politcal axe to grind...you're smoking crack if you think these guys are open to whatever good reasoned science and research will conclude!

Splash Two said...

9/11 Conspiracy Theory Freaks are a sad lot.

In the end all conspiracy theorists are, they give power to the invisible "they" control everything so that the theorist has no real power in life.

Get a grip.

Questions like "where's the plane debris?" Well besides all the pictures of it, why not ask yourself what happened to all the people on the plane if your theory is true. Did G.W. have them all summarily executed? Or did they disappear willingly? Maybe they were all going into witness protection...it's just amazing to me that people can buy into crazy theories about what happened.

Ministry of Truth said...

Tiny, I still dont see any argument from you.
Not a fact, anything.
Probably the only that has yet his opinion and doesnt want to change it is you........

Schadenfreude said...

Splash,

Interesting quote from you: "...it's just amazing to me that people can buy into crazy theories about what happened."

Here's a really crazy one: A man with no flight experience pilots a commercial jetliner traveling at breakneck speed into the side of the military headquarters of the most powerful nation on Earth, does it with zero margin for error on his one and only attempt and the government won't show us the footage of it.

Should I just accept that? Or should I question it? Should I be skeptical that perhaps what the government is telling me isn't 100% fact.

I think you're right to an extent, people who believe trumped up conspiracy theories do so to aboslve themselves of responsibility and in a weird way, to bring order to a chaotic world by means of convoluted explanations. On the other extreme are people who accept whatever story they are told is the truth without question.

I have questions about the official line -- questions without answer. Some questions the government could answer by revealing information they have heretofore refused to.

I am not a conspiracy theorist -- but I do question authority. I am hardly "sad" unless the fact that I refuse to be led like an unprotesting unquestioning sheep makes me sad.

Tiny said...

It's not reasonable, imho, to believe that all the people you need to be quiet who would have participated in killing fellow americans and for what? Sorry, even the most right wing wackos still love America and it's people and they wouldn't go along. The holes in the conspiracy are bigger than the holes in this being a terrorist attack. The two planes that hit the twin towers had missles mounted on them! Ya, ground crews and controllers and other pilots on the tarmac didn't notice? Demolition charges were in the buildings ahead of time, but no video shows them going off during the collapse. The collapse footage is very clear..it's reasonable that once just one support of a steel tray cement floor goes the weight of that tray (let alone any structure above it adding to the momentum) will take out the next i-beam connection. Then the next is cake since you've added that much more weight. Maybe my engineering background and also my starting point of not believing that many Americans would participate in murdering others allows me to explain every question. Video of the pentagon? Ya, ok, video camera frame rates from that side view camera will explain how useless that video is. Why would the govt. give video footage giving away anything more about that facility than is already out there? They don't need to since most don't believe these theories and so compromising security isn't worth it...I could go on, but I'm off to the next topic...cheers

Tiny said...

Ok, I can't help myself...on the issue of the guys flying these planes...he I'm not a pilot but I have friends who are (one is a contributor to this blog) and who own planes...I have flown planes myself. Taking off, landing and dealing with something like an engine going out is what takes all the skill...steering the plane is just not that difficult. Actually the larger the plane the more it flys like a station wagon drives so more speed improves the handling. Left alone to do it, flying into the towers at high speed is not an act of great flying. As for the pentagon that wasn't a great hit...the planes hits the ground at the same time it hits the side of the building...the ground always wins and takes a lof of the energy. That building was build with a lot of reinforced concrete and is far stronger than an i-beam and glass building. They would have don a lot more damage coming in from above into the roof and deeper into the structure....and on it goes

Ministry of Truth said...

Tin, read some simple physics:
http://janedoe0911.tripod.com/BilliardBalls.html

and this one:
http://mujca.com/flighttales.htm

Splash Two said...

Schad, I said conspiracy theorists are a sad lot and you said you're not one, if that's true then you're not sad.

I have no problem with legitimate questioning of authority.

Minister, I find it quite compelling that your janedoe site also supports theories that hurricanes can be manipulated and used as ethnic cleansing devices and that our government blew up levees so they could kill more people because obviously 9/11 and the war on terror aren't doing that job.


It appears the mujca site (sorry I can't read that much inane babbling) believes that muslims weren't involved or at least not to the extent we know to be true and of course the whole thing was orchestrated by the evil Bush administration so that we could go to war and kill more people while making rich white guys richer and hopefully whiter.

Because after all that's what being President is all about.

Pathetic.

Tiny said...

Ministry of lies, it's TINY!

It's a waste of time to go back and fourth with you....you list "big brother" and "conspiracies" as your interests and a read of your blog "your daily two minutes of hate" shows you believe America is bad, Israel is bad, there's a neocon global agenda, etc....it's really quite sad that you believe so many Americans are truly evil.

Ministry of Truth said...

Well, ok: u havent ZNY argument to counter that Judy Wood argument, so u just have to attack their website and mine too.
I dont believe that americans are bad, WAKE UP, I am speaking about the GOVERNMENT, thats a bit DIFFERENT dont u think?

Tiny said...

ministry wack dude, no...you don't get my point...I think God could appear to you and say every conspiracy, every position you had, was wrong and you wouldn't buy it...so I'm not going to try! Why do I think this, well because you suspect every single person who works for our government is willing to do things that are illegal, unjust, and even evil...and you start wtih that premise when evaluating anything our government does...now, a good question for you would be to show me all the conspiracy theories and unanswered questions you had during the Clinton years? I suppose you think the vast majority of people who work for the government has changed since then?

Ministry of Truth said...

you wouldn't buy it...so I'm not going to try!

U could find a better excuse.

Tiny said...

An excuse is needed when you SHOULD do something but you don't. See, most Americans (but you won't believe this) love America first. You think if I support the troops, think on-campus military recruitment is ok, think people who protest at soldiers funerals should have their ass kicked, and fly the flag proudly at my house...you think if someone believes and do those things that they blindly follow Bush, the government, and so on....you know you think that!....guess what? You're so wrong and you have no clue how wrong you are.

Tiny said...

Oh, and ministry dude...please, tell all those who read my blog all the conspiracies you believe the Clinton administration perpetrated? Tell us all the ways our government was evil during his time? I suspect you have none! I suspect your position on everything is blinded by political allignment. You will assume any negative about someone or something that is your political polar opposite as a starting point. I don't, by default, believe something smells just because I don't like the people involved or the something itself! You can't say the same! That's clear by reading your site. Afterall to have a keen interest in conspiracies your disposed to believe one after another.

stinker said...

Be sure to check out the book “Debunking 9/11 Debunking: An Answer to Popular Mechanics and Other Defenders of the Official Conspiracy Theory” due out in March by Dr. David Ray Griffin.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9781566566865&itm=2