Thursday, November 04, 2004

Out Of Touch, Denial & Treason

It's amazing and also admittedly enjoyable (schadenfreude=pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others) to read all the stories and blogs by stunned democrats. The map showing a mostly red geography for Bush when granularity is on a county scale shows just how out of touch the liberals really are. Their complete denial, much like that of the biased media talking heads is truly incomprehensible to me. Check these articles for comments from defeated liberals:

San Jose Mercury News
Chicago Tribune

Then there are the angry left which are easy to find in blogger land....amazing that these ingrates think they are intellectually superior and also more tolerant than the majority (Bush supporters) when their rhetoric is diametrically opposed to that notion and down right treasonous. To wish for the killing or suffering of fellow Americans or anyone for that matter is vile. For just one example check this poor excuse for a human being...kos and also his agreeable commenters!

11 comments:

Tecumseh said...

I was hitting the 'next blog' button and came across yours. I tend to lean liberal, but I want what's best for our country, and not meaningless rhetoric. As a result of the election, I came up with a list of 10-items which Bush and his "voter mandate" should be able to accomplish in the next 4-years. If he does so, the GOP will have my support. If not, I'll go for the Dems... Take a look at this list of what I feel are realistic goals, and hang onto it in your archive. I urge you to take the challenge, and hold the GOP to quantifiable results, and make your choice in 2008 accordingly:

1. Get Osama Bin Laden.

2. Have all U.S. troops out of Iraq, and Afghanistan by 2008. Leave those countries with stable democracies.

3. Keep the price of gasoline at $2.07/gal or less (as they average today).

4. Amend the constitution to stop gay marriage (I don’t believe in this myself – but I don’t think that the G.O.P. will do this because of the risk the Supreme Court would strike it down. Also, I don’t think the GOP wants to put the issue to rest, otherwise they can’t use this issue as a rallying call to the polls.)

5. Reverse Roe vs. Wade (Again, I think the GOP likes to have this issue as a rallying cry, so they won’t actually resolve it).

6. Prevent all terrorist attacks from hitting the U.S.

7. Get back to a balanced budget.

8. Don’t raise taxes

9. Improve the economy:
i.e. Raise the value of the dollar back above the value of the Euro. Bring the number of unemployed persons down to the levels of the end of Clinton years (6,000,000-persons) unemployed. Bring the unemployment rate down to below 5% (it dipped below 4% at the end of Clinton’s term unemployment rate). Increase the real (adjusted for inflation) average household income back to Clinton era levels. Decrease the trend of an increasing number of people living in poverty

10. Keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Get IAEA inspector’s back into North Korea to prevent further development of nuclear weapons.

I don’t think this is too much to ask of a political party which has majorities in the House and Senate, and controls the White House. I urge every citizen to take the challenge, and support whichever party that delivers the results.

Tiny said...

well you do ask for a lot....but I would agree those are all good things to accomplish...however those are not good reasons alone to blindly choose the other party regardless of the person in question. In this era its clear that like me much of our country wants a certain moral core in our leader. We also want someone willing to be on the offensive with respect to our security...to not wait for an imminent threat before taking action against evil. Those two things trump all those things you mention and the proof that the majority agree just happened Tuesday.

Ockhamsrazor said...

Wait--you'll vote for them if they accomplish two things you are against? Where's the sense in that.

Stopping all terrorist acts is a bit much to ask of anyone as is keeping the price of gas low when the democrats won't let us drill for oil on our own soil.
Roe v. Wade may be overturned but it will go to the state level where it belongs so it's not like abortion will become illegal.

I'd love to see what you wish list would have been for Kerry.

Ockhamsrazor said...

Tiny check out www.bartcop.com

Tecumseh said...

As I expected might happen, you won’t take the challenge of agreeing that our nation’s newest employee should be held to quantifiable objectives. If I were hiring a janitor, I would have certain objectives that they must meet which could be monitored (garbage taken out, floors free of debris, etc.) – I wouldn’t want a janitor who merely had a philosophy that the building should be clean. Surely measurable goals are not to much to expect of a commander-in-chief.

In response to the other commenter; I am a Catholic, and if the sole issue deciding my vote was abortion, I would have voted for Bush. I don’t think same-sex marriage is any of my business, but I’d like to see the amendment passed because it eliminates the argument as a talking point, and doesn’t take-away rights that same-sex couples have now… it just puts the status-quo in writing.

I’m disappointed that you can’t agree to some measures of Bush’s second-term which I don’t think are extraordinary. Make up your own list, but hold our nation’s most powerful leader accountable for producing results.

Ockhamsrazor said...

Scott—I never said he shouldn’t be held to some quantifiable standard, he should. I just think your standards are out of whack. It’s kind of like hiring a janitor and saying “You’re job is to make sure that a piece of dust never settles in this building.”

You may have noticed there hasn’t been an attack since 9/11. You may also notice that the only thing OBL could do before the election was send a video tape. No bombings, no planes into buildings, just a video tape.
I too hope that he’s caught but he’s one man in a mighty big world and he has a lot of money and friends. So if there are no attacks and he’s not caught—I’m alright with that.


Let’s go over the rest:

2. Have all U.S. troops out of Iraq, and Afghanistan by 2008. Leave those countries with stable democracies.
---This would be great and it should be doable. I would guess that we will have a permanent base in Iraq so not everyone is going to leave.

3. Keep the price of gasoline at $2.07/gal or less (as they average today).
---This is insane. The president doesn’t set prices of anything in this country, nor should he. You may as well say you want Starbuck’s coffee to be a quarter and you want a gallon of milk to cost 75 cents. Have you taken an economics class?

4. Amend the constitution to stop gay marriage (I don’t believe in this myself – but I don’t think that the G.O.P. will do this because of the risk the Supreme Court would strike it down. Also, I don’t think the GOP wants to put the issue to rest, otherwise they can’t use this issue as a rallying call to the polls.)
----This will be done if he can get the votes. If he proposes it then he’s done his part. He can’t force people to vote for it.

5. Reverse Roe vs. Wade (Again, I think the GOP likes to have this issue as a rallying cry, so they won’t actually resolve it).
----Same as above.

6. Prevent all terrorist attacks from hitting the U.S.
---Idiotic. Mostly because the draconian measures that would be needed to insure this would make you sorry to live here. What’s the point of that? Do you want to live in a free country? If you do then you need to accept some of the risks that go along with that. Get a grip.

7. Get back to a balanced budget.
---This would be a great goal, may be hard during wartime but perhaps doable.

8. Don’t raise taxes
----He can raise tax on some things, I would say “Don’t raise the income tax”

9. Improve the economy:
i.e. Raise the value of the dollar back above the value of the Euro. Bring the number of unemployed persons down to the levels of the end of Clinton years (6,000,000-persons) unemployed. Bring the unemployment rate down to below 5% (it dipped below 4% at the end of Clinton’s term unemployment rate). Increase the real (adjusted for inflation) average household income back to Clinton era levels. Decrease the trend of an increasing number of people living in poverty
---The economy has improved greatly under Bush, it’s not reasonable to expect him to reduce everything to historic levels. He doesn’t control all the factors that affect these things. I would be happy if he maintains economic growth and a relatively low debt in relation to the GDP. That’s a sound economy.

Tecumseh said...

What should Bush, and the GOP be held accountable for? If you’re not agreeable to what I think are fair objectives (based on what was said in the campaign); create a measuring stick you think is realistic. I don’t think it says much for Bush if he can’t be held accountable for terrorism, weapons-of-mass-destruction, abortion, gay-marriage, taxes or the economy!

Give me a counter-proposal of milestones you think are achievable… Otherwise you’ll be creating fuzzy excuses for failures after-the-fact.

Tiny said...

Scott who are you asking? Me? If so not sure where you got the idea that I don't judge or hold Bush accountable for all sort of things. Exactly what? That's my business, I don't care to lay them out for you. The sentence you wrote " I don’t think it says much for Bush if he can’t be held accountable for terrorism, weapons-of-mass-destruction, abortion, gay-marriage, taxes or the economy!" is way too loaded. I suppose you believe Bush actually knew all the intelligence was wrong and decided to go to war anyway? Just how is Bush accountable for gay marriage or abortion? Taxes he can definitely have an effect on...the economy overall is more complicated but if certain outside influences stay at bay he can. It's an entire package, but its also (like this time) possibly heavily weighted on one particular thing. In the end the dems out out of touch with too many people across America...I think a lot of people looked at the people who made the most noise on both sides and most (even if they didn't vote for Bush) liked those noise makers less on the left than on the right. The momentum is on the right and it very well swing even further in 4 years. While I'm ok with a women president a big portion of the center of the country is likely not so put Hillary up in 2008 and then say Rudy on our side and its a blow out for Rudy.

Tecumseh said...

Are you saying that the slogan of President Truman "the buck stops here" no longer applies to the president? Ultimately it was his decision that he had enough, and accurate enough intelligence to go to the public to make the case that Saddam had WMD. Bush stands as the leader of the Republican agenda, but if the Republicans make no progress in that agenda over the next 4-years, you don't seem to have any problem with that; and would give the Republicans another 4-years, and trillions of dollars more. If you can't see quantifiable progress being made, it's time to change leadership. Otherwise we're giving 1/3 of our income to philosophers who really don't care about results.

I keep hearing Republicans warn that Hillary will run in '08. I think that would be supremely stupid of the Democrats. We know she's a controversial figure and wouldn't get the center of America. (I also think that John McCain would be a shoo-in, but I think that hard-line Republicans fear a maverick.) Whomever the candidate, they will represent their party's agenda. What I'm reading is that it's never time to try a different party's agenda, even if the one you have doesn't produce results.

Ockhamsrazor said...

They have already made progress---have you missed that? The economy is in full recovery, their have been no terrorist attacks since 9/11, they gained major support on the defense of marriage act, they cut taxes...if he just continues what he has started he'll have a great 2nd term. He sets his agenda and he should be held to what he says he's going to do. Not to what you think he should accomplish.

When you bring items on your agenda up for votes in Congress and democrats block them then you can't say it's the fault of the President.

And most of your criteria is just arbitrary insanity.

Tecumseh said...

Alright guys, here’s my one last attempt to open your mind and eyes just a little bit. On my blog I asked for Bush to take care of 6 of 10 of the following to get my support.

1. Get Osama Bin Laden.
This is the man most responsible for September 11th! He shouldn’t be able to run and hide from the most powerful and wealthiest nation on earth. As long as he stays uncaptured and alive, he will be an icon to recruit others to the Islamic militant movement. He should be a higher priority than a nation which was not tied to the September 11th attacks.

2. Have all U.S. troops out of Iraq, and Afghanistan by 2008. Leave those countries with stable democracies.
Why is Osama Bin Laden mad with the US? One of the major reasons he sites is we have troops stationed in Saudi Arabia. Leaving troops in Iraq and Afghanistan wasn’t our declared reason for going there. We’re supposed to liberate those countries, give them democracies, and leave them able to govern and defend themselves. In 2008, Bush will have had 6-years to do what he set out to accomplish.


3. Keep the price of gasoline at $2.07/gal or less.
I disagree that Bush and the Republican majority are helpless towards market forces with respect to the price of oil. They can help change the demand for oil in this country – they can close the loop-hole which allows SUV’s to meet the same efficiency standards as trucks. They can close the loop-hole which allows you to deduct up to $100,000 for a Hummer because it weighs over 6,000 lbs. They can increase the incentive to buy hybrid cars which is set to $1,500 and drops every year. They can rally the American public as was done in WWII to reduce oil consumption (instead of telling us to avoid french fries and ketchup). They can confront Russia about locking up the owner of Yukos (in what appears to be a state-takeover attempt) which significantly increased oil prices. They can sponsor research for alternative energy (projections show we’ll be completely out of oil in 40-years at present consumption). They can do a better job in protecting the production facilities of Iraq.

4. Amend the constitution to stop gay marriage (I don’t believe in this myself – but I don’t think that the G.O.P. will do this because I think the Supreme Court would strike it down. Also, I don’t think the GOP wants to put the issue to rest, otherwise they can’t use this issue as a rallying call to the polls.)
The president can only propose this, and then he’s done his job?! He can negotiate. He can nominate members of the supreme court. He’s the most powerful person in the world, and has a majority in both legislative bodies. If he really lobbies for something, and is willing to compromise, he can get something passed.

5. Reverse Roe vs. Wade (Again, I think the GOP likes to have this issue as a rallying cry, so they won’t actually resolve it).
Ditto…

6. Prevent all terrorist attacks from hitting the U.S.
Maybe a lot to ask, but, there’s only been three attempted attacks by Islamic terrorists against the U.S. which I know of. The World Trade Center bombing, the smuggling of explosives into the US in advance of year-2000 attacks on LAX (they were caught at the border). And the attacks of September 11th. What do all these have in common? They were all backed by Osama Bin Laden… You know, the guy who’s still at large.

7. Get back to a balanced budget.
I’m asking for something that was done by the Democrat president before the Republican president took power. The war in Iraq takes only 1% of our GDP, less than any war in the previous history of the US. Getting the budget balanced in wartime is not as impossible as it was during previous wars. The deficit has climbed every year that Bush has been in office.

8. Don’t raise taxes
Okay, don’t raise income taxes.

9. Improve the economy:
* Raise the value of the dollar back above the value of the Euro.
* Bring the number of unemployed persons down to the levels of the end of Clinton years (6,000,000-persons)
* Bring the unemployment rate down to below 5% (it dipped below 4% at the end of Clinton’s term
* Increase the real (adjusted for inflation) average household income back to Clinton era levels
* Decrease to trend of an increasing number of people living in poverty.

Look at http://www.whitehouse.gov/fsbr/income.html all the indicators I’m talking about come from these government produced reports. The charts almost invariably show the same thing… terrible economic news after September 11th, things getting even worse, but then things improving back to Sept 11th levels after 4-years in office. But things are no-where near the levels they were at near the end of Clinton’s term – despite a tax break, and incredibly low federal interest rates.

10. Keep Iran from developing nuclear weapons. Get IAEA inspector’s back into North Korea to prevent further development of nuclear weapons.
In the debates, Bush said his NUMBER ONE issue would be preventing the proliferation of weapons-of-mass-destruction. These are two members of the “axis-of-evil” which are getting the bomb under his watch.

My list is well thought out, and it’s reasonable to expect the president to accomplish the majority of these issues.